Interview by Anita Law. Photos by Two Darlings Photography.
What is the role writing plays for you and in your creative process?
Because my songs are pretty musically simple, I feel like I have to make up for it with stronger lyrics. In a way, the restrictions that come from having a simple tune can help you be more creative. It forces me to be harder on myself for the lyrics.
What do you consider a strong lyric?
Lyrics have to be clever and metaphorical while also being simple and relatable. It’s not easy, it feels like a lot of pressure! I’ve also realized over time that there’s also value in straightforward lyrics and how fun and refreshing they can be.
Starting out as an artist that doesn’t have all the big production values and the songwriters, how do you manage your expectations within the limits of time, budget, and crew, while still reaching for the stars?
It’s no exaggeration to say that every day I wake up and I think about how I can reach my music goals. It’s hard not to compare yourself to others, which isn’t fair anyway because everyone is working with different resources – the top hits that we listen to on the radio for example, are backed by a ton of money and a small fleet of producers and songwriters. It’s a pretty daunting industry to try to dip your toes in!
Once in a while, I feel more optimistic and believe that miracles can happen. That might sound far-fetched, but I think it’s kind of wild that I’m even here at all doing this. I feel extremely lucky.
One example of these small miracles is that my friend is a talented cinematographer, and he decided to help me with music videos. Isn’t that a miracle? How often in your life do you decide to do something completely outside the box, and someone with the exact skills, talents, time, and generosity that you need offers to help you? I try to collect these little miracles and keep them close. If all these little miracles line up, somehow I will be carried to my goals.
It seems like what you’re saying is, although it’s okay to feel overwhelmed by all the things you need to do to get to where you want, it helps to stay inspired by supportive people and by appreciating the surprising moments in your life where things line up.
I think also that feeling overwhelmed means that I’m trying too hard and trying to do too much by myself. You can’t control everything. Sometimes you gotta set a dream in motion and then step back and let the universe do its magic. For example, I never thought I’d have a cinematographer friend who would help me with music videos. I got lucky. We should all strive to make our dreams come true while also allowing space for the unknown.
Was music a childhood interest of yours, how did it emerge and how was it nurtured?
It’s interesting to think back on my musical journey, because it wasn’t straightforward. A common story I hear from other artists is that they got into music when they were a kid, they practiced and got better, and then they were off to a successful career. That didn’t happen for me. I was put into classical music training, and while I am grateful for what I learned, it was also somewhat traumatizing. The main thing that I internalized from classical music was that I would never be good enough, because I was constantly being compared to others. After enduring this environment for over a decade, I decided that they must be right, that I wouldn’t ever be good enough, and I decided to quit music.
How were you able to break free of the sense that you weren’t good enough?
Joining choir was a really important step that I’m grateful to my mom for. Choir gave me basic vocal training and the chance to enjoy music without being graded. For many years after I quit classical music, I remember thinking, “I like music, but I’ll never be good enough.”
But I would keep writing little songs. I’d have a lot of fun composing music, but I’d think of my work in a diminutive way, like, “This is kind of cute but it’s nothing really.” I ended up playing some of my songs at the SFU Recital Society. People would come up to me afterward and tell me that they loved my original music.
That was the first time I thought maybe I should keep going. Years more would pass before I said to myself, “Okay, you’ve been writing songs for like a decade. This doesn’t seem to be going away — do you think maybe you should take this more seriously? ”
How does the creative process work for you? How do you come up with a song, how do you see it to fruition? Is there a process you go through or is more like groping in the dark?
It’s a lot of groping in the dark! I’ll sit at the piano or pick up a guitar and strum a few things and hope something will come to me. I put a lot of pressure on myself too. I’ll think, “I’m an artist, I have to say something significant and substantial!” Most of the time I don’t come up with anything and I feel dumb. You just have to keep trying and hope that the musical gods will bless you eventually.
You’ve described your music as “bittersweet pop,” “comforting heartache,” with “unsettling nostalgia.” Why do you think you’re drawn to these opposites in your music?
A lot of my songs came out of periods of turmoil in my life. Often when we feel bad, we can think that we’re too ugly or too much for other people. I’ve been lucky enough to have friends who taught me that isn’t true – even when you feel really ugly or upset, that doesn’t make you any less loveable.
In my music, I try to make the ugly, difficult, and painful things pretty, so that we can talk about them and experience them in a way that might be more palatable. Music makes it socially acceptable to talk about ugly things. It’s good at exploring what kind of boundaries we can push with each other when it comes to talking about feelings and being vulnerable.
Take us behind the scenes of shooting your music video for “black & blue.”
I’m completely new to all this video stuff. I didn’t realize there would be so much acting involved! I never realized that in order to make a slow-motion video, you have to lip sync at a faster speed. There’s a lot of acting that’s required when you’re singing at twice the speed but still trying to look sad!
The thing I love most is working with my friend Mark, who does the videography. I love listening to him explain lighting and videography. When I told him that “black & blue” is about looking up into the starry sky, I immediately saw the neurons firing in his brain about how to create that image. It’s amazing getting to witness another artist be amazing at their craft, and I’m so lucky that I get to do that with my friend. It’s such a joy and a privilege to share creative energies.
How do you juggle working/hustling with your passion as an artist?
In today’s world, you feel like if you so much as stop to take a breath, you’ll be left behind. As an artist, I feel so much pressure to “do everything” – I need to learn how to be a producer, I need to learn how to play every instrument, I need to learn how to do marketing, I need to learn how to be a stylist and makeup artist, etc.
I realize that’s a very ego-based view of things. It’s not realistic to do it all yourself. I’ve found what has made me the happiest is working with other talented people and having many gifted people contribute to a single vision. I have found so much joy in learning from others and feeling like I don’t have to do this all myself.
As a Chinese-Canadian artist based in Canada, do you have any advice to young people who are interested in branching out into music?
Surround yourself with other musicians and support each other. When I was feeling particularly discouraged about the lack of recognition for Asian-American artists, my friend said to me, “It doesn’t matter; do it anyway.” And he’s right. I’m going to keep doing music with or without the validation of “success”.
I’m continually surprised and moved when friends tell me that they’ve shared my music with Asian youth. My friend who teaches piano told me that she shared my music with her students to inspire them. I have another friend who showed my video to his niece and the niece was blown away that her uncle’s friend could have a video on YouTube. We have to show the next generation it’s possible. It’s important for kids to see people who are relatable, who aren’t so big that they feel out of reach from their reality.
Are there any other projects on the horizon for you?
Yes! My friend Mark has a really cute idea for a video with a coffee shop romance. We want to film something on a beach somewhere, and there’s a dance music video we’re cooking up together. Long-term, I’d love to record an entire album.
What I love about being creative is that there are as many projects as you can dream, and you can share and carry those dreams with others. I’d love to be able to do everything myself, but I get so much joy from working with other people, and I don’t want to stop making art that way. Collaboration has been a real highlight of everything that I’ve done.